[LucaM]

I try posting an image, as a test, to see if it triggers the “too many redirects”… 

EDIT: checking the editing function (don’t pay attention to this post, i’m just trying to figure out where the problem is)

[LucaM]

I find a bit curious the fact that your shots are famous for their natural look, but you often mention among your influences expressionist and abstract painters , that are not naturalistic by definition. A guess is it an influence on istinct and emotions, more than on visual style?

[LucaM]

dmullenasc wrote:

…If the camera had been set to 3200K, then the lighting would read slightly warm. If one wanted even more warmth, one could set the camera higher like to 3400K or 3600K, etc.

I’ve got a “philosophical” question: does altering a bit the temperature of lights with the WB of the camera may still be considered a way to obtain “in camera” the desired look?

For the little project i’m working on i’m trying my best to obtain “in camera” the effect i’m looking for (and i think using this approach is a nice way to learn), but after many tests with colored lights and gels the only simple way i found to obtain the “day for night” effect i desire  is cheating with the WB of the camera. Not the best solution, i know, but the only one that seems to be working in my case.  I’m happy with the result and it just requires a little grading in post to achieve the exact look, but it made me wonder on what  “in camera” means, in practical terms.

[LucaM]

I sent a link to a possible solution by email (it seems i can’t put active links in a post, it triggers the “too many redirect” bug too) . Summing up, it could be a bbpress theme problem: do you think it could be the cause?  On bbpress forum there are various other posts about problems with the editing function, even if not directly involving the “too many redirects” issue, but i’d say it’s a function not working properly on bbpress in general.

[LucaM]

Thanks Roger!

I loved The Witch too, i think it creates a deeply disturbing and uneasy feeling (i think in this its colors and in general the cinematography play a great role) without using the traditional tricks of many horror movies that use the story just an excuse for a collection of jump scares. A24 is creating a sort of revolution in the horror genre and I think Robert Eggers is the most talentend of the directors working with them. I read he loved the original Nosferatu so much that he considered almost disgusting the idea of doing a remake of such an ageless masterpiece, but i think he’s the perfect director for it.

Well, let’s hope you’ll find a great horror story to tell, sooner or later, 20 years after The Village (a movie i loved, by the way, it has one of the most beautiful scenes i’ve ever seen – the one in which Joaquim Phoenix takes Bryce Dallas Howard’s hand and they run in slow motion, with the final part of the scene that seems almost a Caravaggio painting) the world needs and deserves another scary Deakins movie!

 

[LucaM]

I was wondering something similar, It’s an interesting question! I was thinking to a Tommy Lee Jones shot in No Country For Old Men, in which (i hope to remember correctly, i apologize if i am not correct) a close up of his face used a stronger light than the one that was used in the previous full shot, but the light remained of the same quality, so there was continuity. I think – but as always i’m the less experienced here – that perhaps it’s the quality of the light (soft vs hard, direction, temperature, etc) that creates the continuity, while there is a little more freedom with the quantity of light, given that the first comes from the source and the second from the distance from the source. But i’d like to do as you how a correct approach to the problem!

Congratulation for the new short! Is it available online? I’d like to watch it!

EDIT: to clarify my blabbings, i understood (i hope i’m correct, ah ah) that a warm soft light, for example, will stay so even from a distance, while the same will get weaker or stronger moving farer or closer to it, because inverse square law affecting the intenstity of light .

[LucaM]

Roger Deakins wrote:

I can’t recommend more highly The Seed of the Sacred Fig. The film will be released shortly but in the meantime you could watch any of the director’s previous films. His name is Mohammad Rasoulof and among his earlier work is Iron Island, The White Meadow, Manuscripts Don’t Burn, There is no Evil and A Man of Integrity. Mohammad Rasoulof and Andrey Zvyagintsev are making films that illustrate what power film can have.

Your knowledge of worldwide cinema is always remarkable.

Out of curiosity: is there any horror movie that you liked? Maybe i’m completely wrong but it isn’t a genre you mention a lot in your suggestions and i’m not aware of any horror movie you worked on (even if there’s some hint to it in The Village, Sicario’s most scary scenes, a bit of splatter in Fargo too!), so I have the impression  you are not a great fan of it. Is it correct?

[LucaM]

Thanks a lot Roger!

Specific lens too? It seems really a big thing to demand!

[LucaM]

It has been a very interesting and fun episode. I was reading  description on Spotify and  Douglas Slocombe’s “internal light meter”   made my laugh. I have to try it, a bit expensive and difficult to find but it’s an interesting approach.

By the way, “tell us, what is a LUT, David?” could be the best moment of the whole season, ah ah.

I’m a maths and science teacher  in middle school and I can assure that Pitagora’s Theorem is a nightmare for kids, for some reason. Maths in general is their worst enemy, it seems they are scared by numbers. And also University level students are beginning to show huge difficulties. I thought it was a problem just for us in Italy but from David’s words I’d say it’s not.

[LucaM]

Perhaps i’m wrong, but i have the impression that while the focal length per se it’s an interesting information,  it’s more interesting to compare it to the story, to see how it serves the narrative and the reason behind the choice of that particular lens. In other words, i suppose it was technically possible to shoot, let’s say for example, “1917” only in 18 or in 24 mm (with different results, of course) : the interesting part , to me at least , it’s not that they used just 1 lens, but why they used that lens and what choices they were forced to do because of that.

[LucaM]

Thanks for the explanation Roger, you have been very kind!

[LucaM]

If i remember correctly you used this technique for the lantern in the tent scene of 1917, is it correct? I think it’s a very smart way to use practical lights, but how do you avoid the doubling of shadows? is it noticeable?

[LucaM]

I think different DoPs would light the same scene in different ways (think to Suspiria, it’s in that way because Tovoli was not convinced about working on horror and decided  to create something unique and never seen before as a condition to do it, but another DoP maybe would have created a completely different movie) . I am unexperienced like you but i think the choice depends on the story you are trying to tell.  A romantic scene requires a different approach than a scary scene, i think, but there are sad romantic scenes and happy romantic scenes, melancholic horror movies and disgusting horror movies.  You could try by recreating scenes from movies you like or using the same gear to create completely different effects.

[LucaM]

I understand your point, halfgrain, but i don’t think it’s impossible to do a “one man show” as long as one has realistic expectation for the result. At least, that’s what i hope, ah ah! I think that me and emigal are in a similar situation and i hope we can help each other in this learning and planning phase.

I’ve been working for a lot of time on my first script and since i love to work with other people and organize team work i involved a lot of people, from actors to audio guys , from make up artists to musicians etc etc. Somehow i convinced many of them to work on a friendship base for free but I’d like to do a fundrising to collect the funds for this short movie, but i realized i couldn’t ask people for their  money just on a trust base without showing that i’m least able to hold a camera.  So i did a step back and  i begung working on a simpler project to use as example for the fundrising. For this one i’m doing literally everything but acting and music: from set decoration to prop making, from 3d modelling to lighting etc, but i’ll ask to some friend to help me as boom operators.  I took my time to learn withouth rushing (to be honest, i felt that the script, even if very simple, needed more work and i used that time to learn, to study cinema, movies, techniques, problems, gears, etc. I am unexperienced but they use to say i’m a fast learner let’s hope it’s true…). Of course i had to plan everything to make it possible and i have realistic expectations about it, but on the other hand it has been a great learning experience, since it gave me a clearer idea of what everybody does and how to achieve a coherent vision and an idea of problems a director may face. For example, I had to block my scenes knowing where i’ll put my lights and where i’ll need to digitally extend the set, how to use a practical light as a motivation and how to “fake it” where needed, how the choice of a palette of the scene means that you need to use a coherent hue also for the walls and the props, and so on. You know that better than me.

Summing up, i humbly hope to achieve just a decent result and i’m using this first step just a learning phase and an introduction to a way more complex project, but taking the time to learn how to achieve this simple result has been like a crash test on cinema. That’s just my experience but i think something similar could work also for emigal, as long as we both have realistic expectations about what we are doing and why.

[LucaM]

As always, since i’m just an unexperienced amateur don’t take my words too seriously, but somehow i think i can be of some (limited) help since i’m in a similar situation: i’m working on my first short movie and more or less i’ve been through similar doubts. My case could be completely different from yours one but here they are some tips I gave to myself

1) The story is the most important element, don’t rush it. When you think you are done with it, work again on that (after a while you don’t see flaws anymore). Ask people you trust to read it and to highlight problems and don’t take critics personally, they are opportunities to grow. How many wonderfully crafted movies with a stupid story have you watched yet? And i bet there are a lot of movies with limited budget that found a place in history of cinema thanks to their stories.

2) Be realistic : what can you actually shoot, in terms of budget and technical abilities? In your script there’s the coolest scene ever scripted, but there is zero chances you’ll actually be able to shot it as you figured. Well, if is relevant to the story find a turnaround and a creative solution to do something similar, if it’s just a cool shot but it’s useless for the story do yourself a favor and erase the scene.

3) Even to my naive ears “no control on lighting” sounds a bad way to start such a project. You can’t control the weather and clouds etc etc but you can carefully plan many other things (the position of the sun, the angle of the light, the type of light and so on). When you create a shot list from your script you may think how actually shot it and how to achieve the visual result you are looking for. There are apps for sun tracking that allows you to calculate exactly where the sun will be in a given moment. Does the shot requires (in your mind) a close up of the actor in the sunlight? Than stage the scene considering how the sun will light your talents: given that, you may need to diffuse or reflect or block  etc the sunlight. You’ll need some location scouting, at least on google maps or similar apps. And if after all this careful planning the weather will be horrible…well, it happens. If possible come back there but use it as a last resource (more shooting, more time, more cost) . Consider the time you’ll need to set the scene and that , well, the earth will move in the meanwhile, so the position of the sun will change.

3 1/2 ) In general, using the “shot as we go” approach for the entire project could turn in a really complicated one, unless your goal is to create a real documentary of a road trip and no matter how the scene will look and how the audio will be (and it seems it’s not your case). Don’t rush the pre-production phase, plan everything. And think to a B-Plan .

4) Perhaps i’m wrong but months for color grading seems a bit too much to me. If you are so scared by that you could think about hiring a professional colorist (within your budget) or do some test with, for example, free version of Davinci Resolve. It’s not that complicated to achieve decent results with log profiles once you understand how they work. You can’t use them as they are but they are not such a monster. Or you could consider Hlog profiles, that should work better on 8 bit and are way easier to color correct and color grade than Slog (you can almost use them as they are and while they have not the same  dynamic range of SLog they offer some decent space for color grading) . Also consider that Slog may need to be overexposed (please correct me on that if i’m wrong) and to achieve that you may need…planning.

5) Great audio with poor cinematography or great cinematography with poor audio? Or, given the budget, a balance between the two?

6) There’s not “the right” lense, there’s the right lense for your story and while there is plenty of advices and suggestions and opinions on the web, only you know how that scene should look. Does it need an intimate approach? How the characters relate to the enviroment? What feeling should the audience experience watching the scene?

7) Is it a documentary on the beauty of the landscape or is it a road movie? Does the landscape plays a relevant role in the story or is it just a cool background? An ugly background hinting to the struggle of the characters could be more effective that a wonderful landscape that has no relationship with what’s happening.

I hope that helps a little! And as i wrote in the beginning, I’m in a similar situation and i need help too, ah ah!

[Author]

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