Frames and Diffusion Questions

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  • #216826
    gx42
    Participant

      I have a twofold lighting question about diffusion and frames that is a bit more on the technical side.

      1. When double breaking (either through 2 frames or otherwise) does it matter which diffusion material is closest to the subject if the frame is evenly filled by the end anyways? Let’s say we have a 1/4 grid cloth and a full grid cloth. Would there be a difference having the 1/4 grid closest to subject as opposed to the full grid cloth? Any reason to do one over the other?

      2.  And are there times you would just punch a hard source through a light diffusion (1/4 grid etc.) and not worry about it filling out the frame?

      Just some thoughts I had for discussion!

    Viewing 7 replies - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
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    • #216833
      Roger Deakins
      Keymaster

        You might use a light diffusion closer to the shot to soften the light on a character or a specific object, while letting that emitted from the initial, heavier diffusion reach the background.

        Conversely, you could use a light diffusion to spread light more evenly across a second, heavier, diffusion, which is placed nearer the subject. A light diffusion used in this way, such as a brush silk, would not substantially lower the amount of light overall, whereas to use a heavier one in the same place would.

        Again, you might allow light to spill around a diffusion. The result would be a hard light surrounding a softer area.

        I would often adjust the distance between a lamp and a large diffusion to find the  placement that gave me the right (right to my eye) combination of hard and soft. The diffusion might be twelve feet square but the actual light source only seven feet square.

        #216835
        gx42
        Participant

          Thanks for the layered response Roger! Great insight to think about. I like the idea of letting some hard light spill around the softer area, all from one source

          #216839
          LucaM
          Participant

            The result would be a hard light surrounding a softer area. I would often adjust the distance between a lamp and a large diffusion to find the placement that gave me the right (right to my eye) combination of hard and soft.

            It’s an interesting discussion! I understood the idea behind this approach (mixing hard and soft light) and the look it would create, but in this lighting set up  what would the (theorical)  motivation of the soft light be? Would it simulate a bounce light?

            #216849
            dmullenasc
            Participant

              I don’t think softening a light has to always be motivated. If you light a set with a low orange hard light raking across the room to simulate a setting sun… but for a face in the foreground, place a frame of Opal just off-camera to soften it slightly, I don’t think most audiences are going to notice that the light is harder in the background than it is on the face, it is still directional. But even in real life, the sun can pass through things that alter the hardness, maybe one window is a bit blocked by a leafy tree or that window is dustier while in the background, the window is open and clear, etc. Natural light in a room has textures and variations to it.

              One of the most common cheats is to use soft light in a candlelit situation — candle flames are fairly sharp point sources. Multiple candles in a candelabra will soften the effect a bit, the light bouncing off of the ceiling will lower the contrast and add more softness, so we justify using soft light for candle scenes but often the lighting is much softer than real candlelight would produce.  Same goes for moonlight, which in real life is a hard source, and on a heavily overcast night, hardly exposes anything in actuality, and yet many movies use big soft boxes for moonlight.

              • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by dmullenasc.
              #216855
              gx42
              Participant

                Thank you for this response also, David! I’m researching for a light diffusion options to test in the scenarios discussed earlier. Looking for a 4×4 size in a frame, to use before a larger piece of diffusion to fill it out more. Or, also put it in front of the larger diff to soften a face more without losing much level as Roger suggested. Roger suggested a brushed silk, but would a half soft frost also do the trick? How are its characteristics indoors? I feel like 1/4 grid cloth would be too heavy. I’m just looking to either soften a bit more, or spread a light a bit more, but without losing much level. Suggestions or other ideas welcome!

                #216856
                dmullenasc
                Participant

                  Opal, Half Soft Frost and Quarter Grid Cloth are all pretty similar in softening and light loss but produce slightly different shadow textures since when you start getting into very light diffusion, particularly light silks, the way that hard light leaks through and blends with the soft light, the way the light is spread is different. You just have to test, there isn’t a right or wrong choice. Opal, for example, is nice in a 4’x4′ or smaller but can’t really be used on a larger scale and rattles in a breeze. Quarter Silk is interesting because some sharp light comes through so you can still get some feeling of specular highlights and retain some texture on the skin, which may or may not be a good thing.

                  #216860
                  gx42
                  Participant

                    Much appreciated info thank you! I’m thinking of a way to get my hands on a few to test out and see the differences. Perhaps i’ll buy a few different 21″x24″sheets and side by side them. Seems like the affordable approach for testing

                  Viewing 7 replies - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
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