[simoncarlkoeber]

Aah, I think I got that, now, thx for your description!

[simoncarlkoeber]

Thank you, David, that is very interesting! I have the same opinion as you, concerning realism and lighting women vs men. Most of the time it makes no sense to make difference because of gender here but it might make sense for the story. But I was still wondering if practices like this still exist – and seems they do.
Thank you and greetings from Leipzig,
Simon

[simoncarlkoeber]

Thank you, Roger, that is very useful information. I read the AC article about Empire of Light and I was curious about exactly those kind of things.
In the AC article it is mentioned that you used 5-6 of those Fiilex LEDs with softboxes but that u dimmed them down on the edges to create a soft wrap. With edges, do you mean the side that is facing away from the key side, as you do with your famous “cove lighting”? And I was wondering, did you also change the color temperature when you dimmed the Fiilex down, to mimic the effect of dimming a Tweenie maybe? So that the fill side gets a very nice warmer “shadow”/fill, ofc when talking about 3200K scenes?

And it is very good to know that you used the Astera Bulbs for the ring light because I was already wondering how you created a ring light out of the Tubes. 😉 I didn’t even know that there exist bulbs as well.

I wish you a nice day!

[simoncarlkoeber]

Reading this thread makes me very sad.

I want to thank you, James especially and Roger, for your unbelievable work. Everyone who ever worked on podcasts or a forum knows how much work it is.
As a fan of both the podcast and the forum (and someone who for most of the time was just a quiet listener and reader) I deeply admire the 10 years of work you put into giving other people an insight into your wonderful work and into education. For me, you both (!) are a huge inspiration and a big reason I am now on the best way to start a career in cinematography. As I can only speak for myself, but you both not only helped me on understanding the art but on how to find a voice and how to work in a team. That someone can do great artistic work AND be a descent and wonderful human being.

I hope that some of those comments do not keep you from this forum or from making your podcast. I am sure there is a great amount of people who silent readers and listeners like me who deeply appreciate your work.

And I just wish you that you will find a way to recover the old forums so that 10 years of your work aren’t gone. Maybe people who offered their help can do sth for you? As for the others, the old forum was a great source of knowledge who I came often to to learn.
But I will also not stop to ask questions, some of which pbb already have been in the old forum. 😉 Like this maybe we can build a new knowledge base together.

Hope you are doing well, wish you all the best!
Simon

[simoncarlkoeber]

I can try to give my two cents here. Not as experienced though as other members here, so let me know if there is something I got wrong. Don’t get hung up too much on the math though.

1.) First important for you to know is that every exposure setting translates into an absolute number of illuminance you need. Quick way to remember is that with 24fps and a shutter of 180° (1/48s), shooting at T2.8 and 100 ASA, you need 100 footcandles of illuminance. You can measure that when u put ur lightmeter into footcandle mode.
The rest is pure math. If you wanna rate ur Alexa at the native 800 ASA, which is 3 stops more, you need 1/8 the amount of light for the same exposure, so 12.5fc, let’s say ≈13 fc. You wanna shoot at T4.0? Okay, so you need double the amount of light, which is 25fc at 800 ASA.

2.) But how do I know which light to use now? Do I need a 2.5K HMI or a 4K? As said above also by the others, don’t get hung up too much into the math. Good gaffers know from their experience what to use.
If you still want to prepare yourself, you can use the tools the manufacturers give you. Arri for example has to Photometrix App, where you can choose your desired fixture and dial in the distance and it gives you the amount of illuminance in fc or lux. Just play around with it. Every manufacturer will give you data of certain illuminance values in certain distances.

3.) How to put that into practice? Well, for a project, most of the time your budget is the limiting factor. So good way is to calculate if the biggest light you can afford still gets the job done, will say gives you enough light at a certain distance.
Your production can afford an M18 HMI maximum? Great, because when you dial in the numbers, you will find out it gives you 13fc at distance of 80ft or 25m. Which is fairly enough.

4.) So far, we are shooting in direct light. But what happens when we bounce or diffuse our light?
Bounce or diffusion always take away light. If you want to keep your exposure, you have to put that into account. It is hard to measure exactly how much it takes away. I didn’t have the money or equipment to test it myself, but I read a few tests, e.g. the one from Matt Porwoll (check out his blog!). I did some math, and if I am right, you get roughly this loss of light when the bounce or diffusion is at around 50% of the distance between light and object:
Diffusion: ≈ -1 stop of light loss
(216: -1 1/3 stop; 251: -2/3 stop; Full Grid: -1 1/3 stop; Half Grid: -1 stop)
Bounce: ≈ -2 stops of light loss (UltraBounce)
Bounce & Diffusion: ≈ -3 stops of light loss
(with Bounce at 1/3 of the distance and Diffusion at another third,
e.g. Light – 6′ – Bounce – 6′ – Diffusion – 6′ – Object)

5.) Talking illuminance, let’s take our light loss into account with our numbers from 1.): So if you want to create a daylight lighting situation just as Mr. Deakins does often, with HMI bounced into UltraBounce and 251 on the windows, you know now you loose 3 stops of light. If you still shoot at T2.8 at 800 ASA, you now don’t need 13fc but 100fc, or 1070lux. 13fc btw equals ca. 140lux, if you use metric system as I do.

So roughly, you can say this is your light loss and this is how you can calculate. Of course this changes when you change the distance between light and bounce or diffusion. But this is why you shouldn’t be too much focused on the math; it’s is never accurate enough. But it gives you a chance to roughly encircle the type of light you need and the amount of illuminance you need. Especially for low budget productions this comes in handy.

Let me all know if I am right here!

[simoncarlkoeber]

Thank you so much, Max and Roger, for your incredibly kind replies. I soaked all of that in and it is very helpful to me. Especially what you said about working with the actors, Roger, and about working with your crew, Max.
And Max, it helps a lot to know that I’m not the only starting out on a full scale production without going to film school! 😀 That is a bit calming.

I will keep you guys updated on how it went one year from now!
(pbb I will ask more questions in the meantime though)

[Author]

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