Light density

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  • #216918
    Dmitriy.Nedria
    Participant

      Hi Sir Roger,

       

      I wanted to start a discussion here about light density, following your conversation with Greig Fraser regarding LED screens. You’ve mentioned something about light density before, and I’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic.

      Personally, I’ve never been a huge fan of LED screens. I’ve always found it difficult to get satisfying results with them, especially for daytime scenes. For night scenes, it might work in some cases. It also feels like the industry is pushing LED screen technology simply because so much money has already been invested in it.

      Recently, I came across behind-the-scenes images from Disclaimer, the series shot by Emmanuel Lubezki. There was a driving sequence with Cate Blanchett in a double-decker bus in London, and I was convinced it was shot practically—it looked so real. But after seeing the BTS, it seems Chivo used a poor man process instead of LED screens, which is quite different from what most DPs are doing today.

      This approach feels both old-school and new-school at the same time. While LEDs allow you to cue lights, move them around, and change colors dynamically, the reflections in windows can be added in post. Given that producers increasingly want to save money by shooting on stage rather than practically, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.

      How do you see the role of poor man process techniques in modern filmmaking, particularly for driving sequences?

       

      Thank you very much!

      https://www.instagram.com/p/DE4tpywCHZQ/?hl=en&img_index=1

       

    Viewing 6 replies - 1 through 6 (of 6 total)
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    • #216931
      dmullenasc
      Participant

        That BTS clip you put up doesn’t show a poor-man’s process, it shows a bluescreen process shot. Poor-man’s process is when you fake driving with no vfx, just a black background at night, or outside with wind machines blowing dust so you can’t tell the car is static, etc. And there is LED work in “Disclaimer”, like the backyard view from her kitchen.

        Personally I’d rather use LED screens rather than bluescreens for driving work and get everything “in-camera”.

        #216933
        Stip
        Participant

          Thanks David, I was confused of it being described as ‘poor man’s process’ 🙂

          #216938
          Dmitriy.Nedria
          Participant

            That BTS clip you put up doesn’t show a poor-man’s process, it shows a bluescreen process shot. Poor-man’s process is when you fake driving with no vfx, just a black background at night, or outside with wind machines blowing dust so you can’t tell the car is static, etc. And there is LED work in “Disclaimer”, like the backyard view from her kitchen. Personally I’d rather use LED screens rather than bluescreens for driving work and get everything “in-camera”.

             

            Hey David,

            Thanks for your explanation and for clarifying the terminology—I appreciate it! You’re right, this setup doesn’t exactly look “poor.”

            I’m adding a video link that compares two different approaches to driving sequences: one using LED screens (from Joker, shot by Lawrence Sher) and the other using bluescreen (from Disclaimer, shot by Emmanuel Lubezki). You can watch them side by side, and while they have different colour contrasts—overcast vs sunset.

            I think Disclaimer’s background perspective and out-of-focus elements look much better. It’s almost perfect—you can still sense a bit of keying, but it works far more convincingly in my opinion.

            Regarding the Disclaimer scene you mentioned (Catherine destroys the “Perfect Stranger” book), I initially thought the backyard view was an LED screen. But now, I’m not so sure. It could be a large LED setup overhead with Vortexes or SkyPanels shining through a double diffusion with a net, or maybe just a single diffusion with a net.

            I’d love to hear what Roger thinks about these driving sequences and the balance between LED screens vs. bluescreen, especially in terms of light density and realism.

            Thanks again for the discussion!

            #216945
            dmullenasc
            Participant

              If you’ve ever spent time shooting scenes against blue and greenscreens, you can understand why most cinematographers would rather have anything else! LED screens, grey screens, a painted drop, etc. It’s very hard to balance the light in a day interior — and get the ambience right — relative to the windows… when there is no view. You lose a lot of the reflectivity around the room with light bouncing around and reflecting off of surfaces when you have a big bluescreen out the window.

              #216946
              Dmitriy.Nedria
              Participant

                Yes, I’ve shot and tested all the mentioned techniques. I think luma keying works best when your background is the light source, like a real-life sky. I don’t see any problem with real-time compositing on set when you can see a composed image in real time and balance it with your background plates.

                #216962
                Roger Deakins
                Keymaster

                  My take is that I love being in the real world but practical considerations often prohibit that. Otherwise, anything to avoid a blue screen!

                  For a day scene I generally prefer to light through a window and let the exterior blow out. With a flat white beyond, a luminance key will easily create a matte line from a window frame or doorway for whatever might need to be inserted later.

                  For night work I have no problem with real ‘poor man’s process. Of course, it has its limitations but what is shot in camera can always be augmented in post if it is really needed.

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